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Thinking about trust, Part 1: Service Level and User Level

by Christian Scholz on September 2, 2008

While social networks and virtual worlds might share a lot of things except maybe the 3D part there is at least one thing which more care needs to be taken of when thinking about virtual worlds: Trust.

Trust in terms of which services do I trust to let the objects I created go. As there is a huge economy in Second Life around selling virtual goods, it’s very important to content creators that their content is not copied.

This issue is of course even more important when thinking about a distributed grid where everybody can hook up their own servers. We call this the Open Grid Protocol.

A lot of discussions happened already, many more will happen. That was reason for us (that’s me and Dirk Krause/Bartholomaeus Kleiber) to sit together an afternoon thinking about use cases, requirements and so on. We wanted to concentrate in general on what is needed for objects to travel the grid.

The short summary: It’s all very confusing ;-)

In this 2-part series I want to first look at the easier issues of service and user level trust before I dig into the issues of transferring objects from service to service.

But let’s start at the beginning.

Some ways of looking at things

When it comes to trust first of all we need to define what “trust” means. We also need to define between which parties we define trust.

You might look at some sort of service level trust which involves servers. One domain could wonder if it should trust another domain (e.g. if some Region Domain trusts some Agent Domain or vice versa or even AD-AD or RD-RD etc.).

Then there is something I would call user level trust which defines if user A trusts user B.

But in virtual worlds we also have objects so probably we also need something which defines if an object (representing the creator and thus a user) trusts some domain. So we could call that user-service level trust.

These are just words though but maybe it helps to have these.

Service Level Trust

So what is service level trust?

In this area questions like this come:

  • How do we make sure you cannot fake some agent domain and thus maybe impersonate some other person?
  • How can the agent domain be sure that it gives out some object to the region domain it thinks it is?

The answer to these questions is probably simple: Use SSL (or in more general terms certificates). Then at least you can be sure that the service at the other end has that certificate. Usually this party is also the owner of the certificate (in a legal sense).

Then there is the question: Once I identified the domain to be the one I think it is, how do I decide which services I offer to it? E.g. if I should take objects from it, or avatars?

The discussion we had at some AWGroupies meetings tended to end up in letting the implementation define this and IMHO this makes much sense.

There might be different criteria to do such a decision:

  • Do we have a contract with that domain?
  • Does some reputation service say that this is a good domain? (and do we trust that service?=
  • Do we maybe follow some chain of trust and can ask some other domain? (sort of a reputation service I guess)

Implementations can be manyfold, using whitelists, blacklists and so on.

As for the Open Grid Protocol this does also not just apply between Agent Domains and Region Domains but might also apply between external service. IMHO it makes sense anyway to move as many services as possible out of the predefined domains to make them more interoperable and more easily exchangeable.

User Level Trust

This actually is something which is maybe more discussed in the social networking. One group which’s aim is to discuss such things is the DataPortability group (Disclaimer: While I am voting member of the Steering Group there these here are just my personal thoughts)

Things you might want to do here might include:

  • not showing your complete profile to somebody
  • showing e.g. your email address to only certain other users
  • muting/banning users
  • not showing up in searches for some particular user

Such decisions can be made by checking if it’s some contact, some specially tagged contact, an individual whitelist/blacklist, some reputation service etc. It might even involve service level decisions like that a user might want to say that he never wants her email address to be transferred to AD Y or RD X.

Of course you as a user need to trust the service you have chosen to comply to your preferences. And you need to be aware of the fact that services which have access to data (or your contacts) might spread it further. But there is no way around this except maybe adding a license to it which defines what is allowed and not. And which hopefully has some power to pursue people legal wise if you wish so. We hope to get some talk about such approaches soon going again in the DataPortability forum.

I think here is much to benefit from both scenes, web and VWs, as both have their slightly different details and demographics but also much in common. I also assume that both worlds will grow together even more over time and you maybe only want to maintain one account for all your virtual worlds and your social networks, instant messaging services etc.

And this is it for this part, please check back soon (or subscribe to my blog) to read part 2 about the issues regarding object transfers.

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6 comments

Here is why automatically, and permanently, you do not have my trust in anything you say about this: because you have arrogated yourselves above businesses in SL to decide this on their behalf. Your greed and zealotry for being the lead tekkies on this and get credit for coding the OGP and being pioneers blah blah overshadows your awareness and concern about people's intellectual property in SL. You yourself don't appear to have a business in which IP matters to you, and it's hard for you to care about others when your only drive is to be fabulous and out in front on the bleeding edge.

The Lindens have also been extremely vague and haven't indicated that they would not trust the first reverse-engineered threat to residents' IP in SL — OpenSim. OpenSim shows a callous and cynical attitude toward copyright and refuses to install rights or commerce interface, leaving this as a plug-in or add-on for others that they might or might not bug-fix, one can't be sure, given some initial attitudes that took public pressure to change recently.

Technology is being done here for technology's sake along, but also because frankly, the zeal "to be first" on this OGP is all about welding into the technology the copyleftist perspective.

So you two tekkies sitting around pontificating about this generates zero confidence.

And with all your pontificating, you've only come up with the same lame excuses of Zha and Gareth and all the other script kiddies: "But there is no way around this except maybe adding a license to it which defines what is allowed and not. And which hopefully has some power to pursue people legal wise if you wish so." You're telling people to put a notecard into a prim, and telling them to call their lawyers.

Sorry, no sale.

by Prokofy Neva on 2.9.2008 at 20:28. Reply #

Prokofy, I was not talking about transferring objects here but more about personal information such profile data etc. And in SL you cannot even control right now who is allowed to look at your profile, it's just public. This needs to be changed. And if you decide to make it public you should nevertheless have the option to put such a license onto it.

Again: I wasn't talking about objects.

by Christian Scholz on 2.9.2008 at 21:09. Reply #

There are some pretty good pages in the Wiki that are talking about the OGP trust model and use cases; please please take a look at them and see if they can benefit from the thinking that you've been doing:
https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Infinity_Li… https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Infinity_Li…

and although I know you aren't talking about objects :) I've also tried to gather the thinking about objects (and other assets) in OGP, here:
https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Dale_Innis/…

Comments and improvements and additions there would be great also.

by Dale Innis on 2.9.2008 at 21:42. Reply #

I realize that, but the two issues of identity/trust and transferring objects are intimately connected as you well know, as Zha and others trying to convey the impression they "care" about copyright are hitching their wagon to the idea of trusted servers and trusted hook-ups which hinge on identity, and that's been discussed. The two subjects will not be unrelated and you know that. A good deal of why LL is so heavily involved in OpenSim is that Adam Zaius/Adam Frisby has been their favoured son since word one.

Now, as to whether SL profiles should be visible or not, in fact there is a function that makes it possible not to have an SL profile in search, although the name remains. I think that is a rough RL equivalent to having an unlisted telephone number, but where the operator says yes, there is such a party, but at the party's request, the number is unlisted.

I don't see the point of having avatars "black" in SL like incognito spies, and I think it sets up more problems of crime than it resolves problems of privacy.

Perhaps in some ideal world the SL profile could be made more like Facebook, where you can't see the full profile unless you "friend" someone, but friending is so promiscuous and unchecked, I don't think this has the value you imagine.

The reason they call it social media is because…ta-da…it's social…

by Prokofy Neva on 3.9.2008 at 00:04. Reply #

[...] are going on on which topic to tackle next. There has been much discussion about trust (see my blog post about it here and Inifity Linden’s page about trust) and about Instant Messaging (see the wiki page [...]

by mrtopf.de » Blog Archive » 1 year Architecture Working Group on 14.9.2008 at 00:05. Reply #

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