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	<title>Comments on: The OpenID Branding problem</title>
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	<link>http://mrtopf.de/blog/web20/the-openid-branding-problem/</link>
	<description>Web2.0, Plone, Second Life, New Marketing, Data Portability</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 18 Mar 2010 00:40:55 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: OpenID Connect und MySpaceID at notizBlog - a private weblog written by Matthias Pfefferle</title>
		<link>http://mrtopf.de/blog/web20/the-openid-branding-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-4444</link>
		<dc:creator>OpenID Connect und MySpaceID at notizBlog - a private weblog written by Matthias Pfefferle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 08:48:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mrtopf.de/blog/web20/the-openid-branding-problem/#comment-4444</guid>
		<description>[...] umbenannt hat ist der Name OpenID vielleicht doch gar nicht so doof&#8230;  Ob Connect oder ID (oder sonst wie), die Funktionsweise von OpenID wird durch eine Umbenennung sicherlich nicht [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] umbenannt hat ist der Name OpenID vielleicht doch gar nicht so doof&#8230;  Ob Connect oder ID (oder sonst wie), die Funktionsweise von OpenID wird durch eine Umbenennung sicherlich nicht [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Christian Scholz</title>
		<link>http://mrtopf.de/blog/web20/the-openid-branding-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-4434</link>
		<dc:creator>Christian Scholz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 22:21:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mrtopf.de/blog/web20/the-openid-branding-problem/#comment-4434</guid>
		<description>As for the name I think people will get used to it.. People right now don't think that much what EMail might be, they see an email field and instantly know what to put there. I think the same needs to be true for OpenID. 

I also wonder if people might ask at some point what this openid thing actually is they keep seeing on several sites (assuming more and more sites provide it). Then also mainstream media might jump on that train and explain it to the masses.

BTW, services using Fb connect might also restrict their users to the FB TOS. Maybe also not something you want.

@Brad: right, there are still issues.. and you can either give them the possibility to use more than one openid for their account or (I think that's what you mean) to give them access via their email.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As for the name I think people will get used to it.. People right now don&#8217;t think that much what EMail might be, they see an email field and instantly know what to put there. I think the same needs to be true for OpenID. </p>
<p>I also wonder if people might ask at some point what this openid thing actually is they keep seeing on several sites (assuming more and more sites provide it). Then also mainstream media might jump on that train and explain it to the masses.</p>
<p>BTW, services using Fb connect might also restrict their users to the FB TOS. Maybe also not something you want.</p>
<p>@Brad: right, there are still issues.. and you can either give them the possibility to use more than one openid for their account or (I think that&#8217;s what you mean) to give them access via their email.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Cascio</title>
		<link>http://mrtopf.de/blog/web20/the-openid-branding-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-4433</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Cascio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 18:32:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mrtopf.de/blog/web20/the-openid-branding-problem/#comment-4433</guid>
		<description>I don't agree that "Facebook Connect" means more than OpenID. I had no idea what it meant until I read up on it. I do agree that Facebook's strategy of proprietary competition is unlikely to be a winner. The idea that everyone in the world will have a Facebook account, or that every service will agree to restrict their users to only those that have Facebook accounts doesn't make sense.

OpenID does have some issues, but all it would take is for Google to start issuing and/or accepting them, and that would crack Facebook's strategy in one fell swoop. Google is much more likely to be enlightened on this issue and people view them with less suspicion than they do Facebook, which is patently predaceous. 

Steve Repetti Re: Service providers not groking that they don't "lose control". You are SO right about that. But I think in time it will get through. It took a long time for retail merchants to understand general credit cards like Visa and MasterCard. Then at some point they finally realized that the name of the game was making it easy for people to buy things. 

I think for OpenID to be successful there needs to be some organization behind it with some money that does marketing and most importantly educates and provides implementation support to service providers. It has so much going for it in terms of simplicity for the end user AND the services that act as consumers.

The best thing, in my opinion, is to get to people who are just starting to build services and try to convince them to at least offer it. The people who don't "get it" won't get it until they see someone else be successful with it. We are starting to see some of that now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t agree that &#8220;Facebook Connect&#8221; means more than OpenID. I had no idea what it meant until I read up on it. I do agree that Facebook&#8217;s strategy of proprietary competition is unlikely to be a winner. The idea that everyone in the world will have a Facebook account, or that every service will agree to restrict their users to only those that have Facebook accounts doesn&#8217;t make sense.</p>
<p>OpenID does have some issues, but all it would take is for Google to start issuing and/or accepting them, and that would crack Facebook&#8217;s strategy in one fell swoop. Google is much more likely to be enlightened on this issue and people view them with less suspicion than they do Facebook, which is patently predaceous. </p>
<p>Steve Repetti Re: Service providers not groking that they don&#8217;t &#8220;lose control&#8221;. You are SO right about that. But I think in time it will get through. It took a long time for retail merchants to understand general credit cards like Visa and MasterCard. Then at some point they finally realized that the name of the game was making it easy for people to buy things. </p>
<p>I think for OpenID to be successful there needs to be some organization behind it with some money that does marketing and most importantly educates and provides implementation support to service providers. It has so much going for it in terms of simplicity for the end user AND the services that act as consumers.</p>
<p>The best thing, in my opinion, is to get to people who are just starting to build services and try to convince them to at least offer it. The people who don&#8217;t &#8220;get it&#8221; won&#8217;t get it until they see someone else be successful with it. We are starting to see some of that now.</p>
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		<title>By: Promote the utility, not the technology at notizBlog - a private weblog written by Matthias Pfefferle</title>
		<link>http://mrtopf.de/blog/web20/the-openid-branding-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-4432</link>
		<dc:creator>Promote the utility, not the technology at notizBlog - a private weblog written by Matthias Pfefferle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 17:41:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mrtopf.de/blog/web20/the-openid-branding-problem/#comment-4432</guid>
		<description>[...] Scholz macht sich in seinem Artikel &#8220;The OpenID Branding problem&#8221; Gedanken dar&#252;ber wie man dem normalen User OpenID n&#228;her bringen k&#246;nnte (und [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Scholz macht sich in seinem Artikel &#8220;The OpenID Branding problem&#8221; Gedanken dar&#252;ber wie man dem normalen User OpenID n&#228;her bringen k&#246;nnte (und [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Sebastian Küpers</title>
		<link>http://mrtopf.de/blog/web20/the-openid-branding-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-4431</link>
		<dc:creator>Sebastian Küpers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 17:14:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mrtopf.de/blog/web20/the-openid-branding-problem/#comment-4431</guid>
		<description>I absolutely agree with you Christian. But I would like to add, that I am still not happy with the brand name itself. What Facebook does pretty well, is to choose and clear and descriptive term for their technology.

"Facebook Connect" - everybody can understand, that's about connecting with Facebook.

"OpenID" - well open? is that secure? I don't want my ID to be open. Aehm - which ID do you  mean? What does ID stand for?

The brand name is to much confusing, from what I experience when I talk to non-geeks about OpenID. Sure - let's promote a brand - let's skip all the confusing stuff around it --- but is it the right name?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I absolutely agree with you Christian. But I would like to add, that I am still not happy with the brand name itself. What Facebook does pretty well, is to choose and clear and descriptive term for their technology.</p>
<p>&#8220;Facebook Connect&#8221; - everybody can understand, that&#8217;s about connecting with Facebook.</p>
<p>&#8220;OpenID&#8221; - well open? is that secure? I don&#8217;t want my ID to be open. Aehm - which ID do you  mean? What does ID stand for?</p>
<p>The brand name is to much confusing, from what I experience when I talk to non-geeks about OpenID. Sure - let&#8217;s promote a brand - let&#8217;s skip all the confusing stuff around it &#8212; but is it the right name?</p>
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		<title>By: Brad</title>
		<link>http://mrtopf.de/blog/web20/the-openid-branding-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-4430</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 15:31:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mrtopf.de/blog/web20/the-openid-branding-problem/#comment-4430</guid>
		<description>The biggest issue I have as a service provider is that I'm giving basic control of my users up to someone else. If someone using OpenID has problems logging into my site there is *nothing* I can do about it. I still have to incur the support cost and walk the user through the "who is your OpenID provider - go talk to them" steps. I do enough of that with email addresses and passwords already.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The biggest issue I have as a service provider is that I&#8217;m giving basic control of my users up to someone else. If someone using OpenID has problems logging into my site there is *nothing* I can do about it. I still have to incur the support cost and walk the user through the &#8220;who is your OpenID provider - go talk to them&#8221; steps. I do enough of that with email addresses and passwords already.</p>
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		<title>By: Christian Scholz</title>
		<link>http://mrtopf.de/blog/web20/the-openid-branding-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-4428</link>
		<dc:creator>Christian Scholz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 16:00:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mrtopf.de/blog/web20/the-openid-branding-problem/#comment-4428</guid>
		<description>one could maybe say: Time, Education and facebook connect ;-)

Also service providers need to learn that when I sign up to a different service, I am not lost for the previous one. Or you can also say: The easier it is to move means that it's also easier to get new users.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>one could maybe say: Time, Education and facebook connect <img src='http://mrtopf.de/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Also service providers need to learn that when I sign up to a different service, I am not lost for the previous one. Or you can also say: The easier it is to move means that it&#8217;s also easier to get new users.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Repetti</title>
		<link>http://mrtopf.de/blog/web20/the-openid-branding-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-4427</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Repetti</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 15:50:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mrtopf.de/blog/web20/the-openid-branding-problem/#comment-4427</guid>
		<description>"But couldn’t service providers simply provide their own username/password and additionally something which is clearly labeled as “OpenID”."

I think that IS the VERY REASONABLE answer.  As far as "control," service providers still haven't grocked the idea that somebody else can be the base repository and it still works perfectly with their services without them giving something up. Time, educaton, and market pressure -- they'll eventually get it!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;But couldn’t service providers simply provide their own username/password and additionally something which is clearly labeled as “OpenID”.&#8221;</p>
<p>I think that IS the VERY REASONABLE answer.  As far as &#8220;control,&#8221; service providers still haven&#8217;t grocked the idea that somebody else can be the base repository and it still works perfectly with their services without them giving something up. Time, educaton, and market pressure &#8212; they&#8217;ll eventually get it!</p>
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		<title>By: Christian Scholz</title>
		<link>http://mrtopf.de/blog/web20/the-openid-branding-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-4426</link>
		<dc:creator>Christian Scholz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 15:37:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mrtopf.de/blog/web20/the-openid-branding-problem/#comment-4426</guid>
		<description>But couldn't service providers simply provide their own username/password and additionally something which is clearly labeled as "OpenID".  And I am not sure if it's really about giving up control. Fact is that services are already offering login via OpenID so they seem to see the benefit but they just name it all differently or give several names instead of just one.

I think the name simply needs to show up everywhere with some link to what it actually is, explained for normal users.

I think OpenID providers should also make very clear to their users what their OpenID is and how they can use it. That fits well into your point about education. I see it more though that not providers need to be educated but providers need to educate their users. They also have the power to do that (esp. Google and Yahoo with their userbase).

Thanks for your comment!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But couldn&#8217;t service providers simply provide their own username/password and additionally something which is clearly labeled as &#8220;OpenID&#8221;.  And I am not sure if it&#8217;s really about giving up control. Fact is that services are already offering login via OpenID so they seem to see the benefit but they just name it all differently or give several names instead of just one.</p>
<p>I think the name simply needs to show up everywhere with some link to what it actually is, explained for normal users.</p>
<p>I think OpenID providers should also make very clear to their users what their OpenID is and how they can use it. That fits well into your point about education. I see it more though that not providers need to be educated but providers need to educate their users. They also have the power to do that (esp. Google and Yahoo with their userbase).</p>
<p>Thanks for your comment!</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Repetti</title>
		<link>http://mrtopf.de/blog/web20/the-openid-branding-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-4425</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Repetti</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 14:23:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mrtopf.de/blog/web20/the-openid-branding-problem/#comment-4425</guid>
		<description>I agree that too many options are confusing. The problem with only using OpenID is that service providers try to minimize any barriers to entry for folks to access their site.  Using OpenID and only OpenID works fine for those that already have an OpenID account, but ut becomes one more thing for the user to do if they don't. It doesn't sound like much, but providers want to keep it simple.

And, there's another selfish reason too. Providers hate to "give up control" and they think that's what's happening -- even though it's not true.

I would agree with  your proposals, but add: education of providers as well. Not sure how likely we are to get only OpenID logins everywhere anytime soon, however I wold consider it a measure of success if the plethora of options were reduced to just one or two!

BTW: great article!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that too many options are confusing. The problem with only using OpenID is that service providers try to minimize any barriers to entry for folks to access their site.  Using OpenID and only OpenID works fine for those that already have an OpenID account, but ut becomes one more thing for the user to do if they don&#8217;t. It doesn&#8217;t sound like much, but providers want to keep it simple.</p>
<p>And, there&#8217;s another selfish reason too. Providers hate to &#8220;give up control&#8221; and they think that&#8217;s what&#8217;s happening &#8212; even though it&#8217;s not true.</p>
<p>I would agree with  your proposals, but add: education of providers as well. Not sure how likely we are to get only OpenID logins everywhere anytime soon, however I wold consider it a measure of success if the plethora of options were reduced to just one or two!</p>
<p>BTW: great article!</p>
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